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Mod note on 'How can we get staff to stick to promises?'
I do see the "ex cathedra" box on the comment you link.
Yep, I fixed that, 'a non mouse, a cow herd' was not seeing things when they made that comment
which, to me, why??? why is it so hard to edit? View source seems to make it look like one line of CSS or HTML? Why can only one person edit it? What if they get hit by a bus?
And, to get back to the original thought of this post, why are we still having the same issues all the time? The "flag" thing took how many years? Publishing BIPOC minutes got to over a year. We're still waiting on a community created cookbook for how long now? The initial excuse was that the community member who was going to do it had things come up. Yet, at least one other volunteered to take over but was shut down to let the first person still attempt to finish.
The code of the current site is a mess and done using a lot techniques from an earlier era of coding, where a lot of current practices just did not exist. Roughly speaking as an a non-developer, I think that analogy is this: Previously everything was hand coded, and I do mean everything, even seemingly common elements (like a footer,) were reproduced a number of times (the footer is at the bottom of every page).
Now imagine having to go into every single one of those different pages that the footer appears on, just to change one or two links. That may be decided to not be worth the time for part time developer to do, especially when there's other stuff going on.
Nowadays templates are built into a content management system (CMS), so that a non-developer has access to a single page where the template is and can just go into that one page to edit that template and those changes are immediately applied wherever that template is being used on the site.
That MetaFilter is more like the former, than the latter is frustrating for everyone, but it is what it is. That's not me being flip, just recognizing that a lot of things with the current site are what they are and are not going to change, hence rebuilding the site.
I think a lot of that also influenced general practices with the staff over time. A "we can't move fast, so we don't move fast". That is my personal opinion and expect that'll change with the new site (note how quickly the missing line around an official mod note was changed and as the person who made the change, it was super easy), which will allow general staff to change things on the site without having to go through a part-time developer aka much quicker.
There are number of complaints mentioned in your comment and I can't reply to every single one because I don't know all the details. But I will express my opinion about late things with the BIPOC Board.
Yes, it took a while and that was frustrating, but I think it's ok, while also noting the Board has changed its practice of doing meeting minutes, they're much more concise.
But asking or demanding that a group that is dedicated to helping people who may feel silenced in life and on this site to 'be quicker' isn't all that helpful to those people. In fact those very public demands may encourage people to disengage and move slower. Not a great result, sure, but a very human one.
Finally, I do think things are getting better. The very comment and "broken promise" that prompted this MeTa post were actually part of a longer comment where I was talking about working on document to make information users were requesting more visible.
So yes, something was promised and didn't happen. But work and improvements are being done and happening and I would encourage everyone to think of things on a larger site level scale and opposed to always focusing on one particular thing. That doesn't mean mistakes shouldn't be publicly called out. Just try to look at the large picture and when improvements are being made, to note that publically also.
Yep, I fixed that, 'a non mouse, a cow herd' was not seeing things when they made that comment
which, to me, why??? why is it so hard to edit? View source seems to make it look like one line of CSS or HTML? Why can only one person edit it? What if they get hit by a bus?
And, to get back to the original thought of this post, why are we still having the same issues all the time? The "flag" thing took how many years? Publishing BIPOC minutes got to over a year. We're still waiting on a community created cookbook for how long now? The initial excuse was that the community member who was going to do it had things come up. Yet, at least one other volunteered to take over but was shut down to let the first person still attempt to finish.
The code of the current site is a mess and done using a lot techniques from an earlier era of coding, where a lot of current practices just did not exist. Roughly speaking as an a non-developer, I think that analogy is this: Previously everything was hand coded, and I do mean everything, even seemingly common elements (like a footer,) were reproduced a number of times (the footer is at the bottom of every page).
Now imagine having to go into every single one of those different pages that the footer appears on, just to change one or two links. That may be decided to not be worth the time for part time developer to do, especially when there's other stuff going on.
Nowadays templates are built into a content management system (CMS), so that a non-developer has access to a single page where the template is and can just go into that one page to edit that template and those changes are immediately applied wherever that template is being used on the site.
That MetaFilter is more like the former, than the latter is frustrating for everyone, but it is what it is. That's not me being flip, just recognizing that a lot of things with the current site are what they are and are not going to change, hence rebuilding the site.
I think a lot of that also influenced general practices with the staff over time. A "we can't move fast, so we don't move fast". That is my personal opinion and expect that'll change with the new site (note how quickly the missing line around an official mod note was changed and as the person who made the change, it was super easy), which will allow general staff to change things on the site without having to go through a part-time developer aka much quicker.
There are number of complaints mentioned in your comment and I can't reply to every single one because I don't know all the details. But I will express my opinion about late things with the BIPOC Board.
Yes, it took a while and that was frustrating, but I think it's ok, while also noting the Board has changed its practice of doing meeting minutes, they're much more concise.
But asking or demanding that a group that is dedicated to helping people who may feel silenced in life and on this site to 'be quicker' isn't all that helpful to those people. In fact those very public demands may encourage people to disengage and move slower. Not a great result, sure, but a very human one.
Finally, I do think things are getting better. The very comment and "broken promise" that prompted this MeTa post were actually part of a longer comment where I was talking about working on document to make information users were requesting more visible.
So yes, something was promised and didn't happen. But work and improvements are being done and happening and I would encourage everyone to think of things on a larger site level scale and opposed to always focusing on one particular thing. That doesn't mean mistakes shouldn't be publicly called out. Just try to look at the large picture and when improvements are being made, to note that publically also.
Mod note on '[MeFi Site Update] March 2025'
More timeouts. Brandon, is frimble aware of this?
Left a note in the mod Slack for them.
Left a note in the mod Slack for them.
Mod note on '[MeFi Site Update] March 2025'
Added a General Information FAQ that contains basic information that members have requested be in one place. The link to this FAQ entry will be placed in the navigation bar for easy access and titled "General Site Info". If there's you think should be added to it, please let us know in the comments!
Changed the above paragraph in the post to this:
Changed the above paragraph in the post to this:
Added a General Staff and Site Information FAQ that contains basic information that members have requested be in one place. The link to this FAQ entry will be placed in the navigation bar for easy access and titled "Staff & Site Info". If there's something you think should be added to it, please let us know in the comments!Done to make it clearer that the link contains information about the staff.
Mod note on 'How can we get staff to stick to promises?'
This isn't a great solution, true, but it's one that the staff can easily update, so that's a win, IMO.
The footer on the current site isn't easily editable, hence why it hasn't been updated in a long while.
The footer on the current site isn't easily editable, hence why it hasn't been updated in a long while.
Mod note on 'How can we get staff to stick to promises?'
And unless I've misunderstood something, this is the one triad of people at all of Metafilter right now who owns it and has any actual power to make decisions. Effectively invisible on the site unless you follow seventeen clicks to subsection 14(c) of the faq and then remember the whole time.
FYI, there is now a link in the site navigation bar titled "Staff & Site Info" that links to a FAQ entry that has the staff box and general site information. It's accessible from every page and if people have suggestions about other information that can go in there, please let us know in the comments or via the Contact Us page.
FYI, there is now a link in the site navigation bar titled "Staff & Site Info" that links to a FAQ entry that has the staff box and general site information. It's accessible from every page and if people have suggestions about other information that can go in there, please let us know in the comments or via the Contact Us page.
Mod note on 'A moderation log, general info page, and site update note'
Awesome, thank you!
Mod note on 'A moderation log, general info page, and site update note'
I believe it's been discussed in terms of handling account wipes differently, but if you're hoping for this specific feature, I recommend adding it to the feature request form. (list of requests).
Mod note on '[MeFi Site Update] March 2025'
[Positively] Is the link to "collecting information about member run activities and events" supposed to go here?
Yep, fixed now, thanks for pointing out!
Curious why Seattle was selected for the P.O. Box location and how that will work with a board-run site.
One of the board members lives there, so it's easy for them to pick it up.
Also added a link to the MefiQuote announcement page.
Yep, fixed now, thanks for pointing out!
Curious why Seattle was selected for the P.O. Box location and how that will work with a board-run site.
One of the board members lives there, so it's easy for them to pick it up.
Also added a link to the MefiQuote announcement page.
Mod note on 'Antisemitism on MetaFilter and how to reduce it'
One comment deleted. Please don't call anyone Lizard Person, this is a dog whistle rooted in antisemitic conspiracy theories that have long sought to dehumanize Jewish people and as such goes against our Content Policy and Community Guidelines.
Mod note on 'How can we get staff to stick to promises?'
One comment above deleted. While we avoid deleting comments in MetaTalk, Name calling and personal attacks go against our content policy, please abide by it regardless of the subsite you are in.
Mod note on 'How can we get staff to stick to promises?'
What steps are you taking towards that?
– We've moved from this being a one person effort to a team effort and set timelines/owners for each section of the site update.
– I'm working with the board to set better communication channels for volunteers, the board and the staff.
– Brandon and I discussed just yesterday the possibility of breaking the site update into different posts (tech updates, admin updates, moderation updates, etc..) that way once section won't hold the other.
– We've moved from this being a one person effort to a team effort and set timelines/owners for each section of the site update.
– I'm working with the board to set better communication channels for volunteers, the board and the staff.
– Brandon and I discussed just yesterday the possibility of breaking the site update into different posts (tech updates, admin updates, moderation updates, etc..) that way once section won't hold the other.
Mod note on 'How can we get staff to stick to promises?'
The site update should be out by Friday evening, have been waiting on some information.
Mod note on 'How can we get staff to stick to promises?'
Yep, I dropped the ball there (original comment), so my apologies.
I usually set a reminder or have note for that stuff, just forgot to do it this time around.
I usually set a reminder or have note for that stuff, just forgot to do it this time around.
Mod note on 'Antisemitism on MetaFilter and how to reduce it'
Antisemitism is not tolerated on MetaFilter and the moderators want to know if members do see it occurring. Please flag it (a note is helpful) or email us with a llink to the comment/incident.
And while this thread is about antisemitism specifically, please remember this from our Content Policy:
And while this thread is about antisemitism specifically, please remember this from our Content Policy:
MetaFilter is an inclusive space. Avoid posting racial slurs or stereotypes; deliberately misgendering/misnaming others; questioning the existence and/or validity of trans identities as well as other racist, misogynist, homophobic, transphobic, ageist, ableist or otherwise hateful speech. This includes making hateful or insensitive statements ironically or sarcastically as well as linking hateful sources (authors or websites).
Mod note on 'New Site Update 10 March'
Thank you for all your hard work kirkaracha, we've noted the new site developments in the sidebar and Best Of blog!
Mod note on 'Better MetaFiltering through scripting'
This is good news and a great addition, with all the other recent code changes, so we've added this post to the sidebar and Best Of blog!
Mod note on 'Revisiting posts that disappear from the MeTa queue'
If Violet Blue, or anyone else, wants to create a MeTa about anti semitism on MetaFilter and how to reduce it, that's totally fine, go for it. I recommend avoiding making it personal and please avoid trying to police the thread and arguing with everyone who disagrees with your (general your, not a specific person) point of view.
This thread should stick to discussion about moderation and the MeTa queue.
This thread should stick to discussion about moderation and the MeTa queue.
Mod note on 'Revisiting posts that disappear from the MeTa queue'
Sparky Buttons: "I think it would be helpful if the posts that dont make it through the queue are noted on the mod log."
Agreed and it was requested back on March 22 that the moderation log on the new site record that information. Mentioning that to make it clear there's no objection to making that information visible, just no clear technical way at them moment, but restless_nomad has suggested a work around.
pdb: " is that decision and the reason why communicated to the person who created the post (via MeMail or other communication method)? Because if not, it absolutely should be. #pleaseanswer
"
Yes, the member is emailed the reason why it wasn't published. Both of the mentioned MeTas were emailed.
It's possible that the process should be changed to "posted but closed with deletion reason" rather than just not posted,
Decent idea, will talk it over with the other mods, thanks for suggesting it!
Out of interest, why do messages or notes in flags have more weight in the decision than (hypothetically) a MeTa that might be 90% decent discussion amid the fighty-ness?
They don't necessarily have more weight, it's very conditional. In this particular instance, I'm mentioning them as way that members have communicated, along with emails, what they think of particular situations.
Agreed and it was requested back on March 22 that the moderation log on the new site record that information. Mentioning that to make it clear there's no objection to making that information visible, just no clear technical way at them moment, but restless_nomad has suggested a work around.
pdb: " is that decision and the reason why communicated to the person who created the post (via MeMail or other communication method)? Because if not, it absolutely should be. #pleaseanswer
"
Yes, the member is emailed the reason why it wasn't published. Both of the mentioned MeTas were emailed.
It's possible that the process should be changed to "posted but closed with deletion reason" rather than just not posted,
Decent idea, will talk it over with the other mods, thanks for suggesting it!
Out of interest, why do messages or notes in flags have more weight in the decision than (hypothetically) a MeTa that might be 90% decent discussion amid the fighty-ness?
They don't necessarily have more weight, it's very conditional. In this particular instance, I'm mentioning them as way that members have communicated, along with emails, what they think of particular situations.
Mod note on 'Let's talk about the BIPOC board.'
Brandon: what happened to Violet Blue's MeTa thread?
Please create a MeTa for that and cease derailing this one. I'm up for a little bit, so it should go through. Yes, people may think it's ridiculous, to create a MeTa about why another MeTa wasn't published, but folks need to stop derailing this post.
I'm up for a while longer, so will send it through.
Please create a MeTa for that and cease derailing this one. I'm up for a little bit, so it should go through. Yes, people may think it's ridiculous, to create a MeTa about why another MeTa wasn't published, but folks need to stop derailing this post.
I'm up for a while longer, so will send it through.
Mod note on 'Let's talk about the BIPOC board.'
I did consider making a MeTa post that was literally just "who is in charge here"
Slight update to the General Info FAQ which clarifies the position of the Interim Board (IB) members, and clarifies that loup is in a position over all the moderators.
But for quick reference, here's the Board info:
Rhaomi: President
1Adam12: Treasurer
Gorgik: Secretary
Slight update to the General Info FAQ which clarifies the position of the Interim Board (IB) members, and clarifies that loup is in a position over all the moderators.
But for quick reference, here's the Board info:
Rhaomi: President
1Adam12: Treasurer
Gorgik: Secretary
Mod note on 'Let's talk about the BIPOC board.'
Violet Blue, you're derailing this thread, please stop doing that.
There's a consistent pattern of behavior here where you post a thread on the front page, people have disagreements with you about the subject and then you try to police the thread. When told to stop you begin accusing people of organizing against you and/or contacting the mods to get their comments taken down.
The I/P subject is a complex one with lots of sides and emotions. It is recommended that you stop trying to argue with every single person who disagrees you. It is recommended that you stop accusing others of working in some organized fashion against you. People simply disagree with your take on things and that's perfectly fine.
Please stop posting comments in this thread. If you don't, we'll have to start removing your comments and/or issue temporary bans of increasing length, so please stop.
There's a consistent pattern of behavior here where you post a thread on the front page, people have disagreements with you about the subject and then you try to police the thread. When told to stop you begin accusing people of organizing against you and/or contacting the mods to get their comments taken down.
The I/P subject is a complex one with lots of sides and emotions. It is recommended that you stop trying to argue with every single person who disagrees you. It is recommended that you stop accusing others of working in some organized fashion against you. People simply disagree with your take on things and that's perfectly fine.
Please stop posting comments in this thread. If you don't, we'll have to start removing your comments and/or issue temporary bans of increasing length, so please stop.
Mod note on 'A moderation log, general info page, and site update note'
Oops, in trying to favorite warriorqueen's comment, I accidently removed it, for about 5-10 seconds. My apologies!
Mod note on 'A moderation log, general info page, and site update note'
Hey, it's Brandon again, going to respond to questions about the simple mod log by first explaining how it came to be:
Me: hey, we should do the mod log that members have been asking for
Management (MM): we don't really have the resources to do that
Me: well, members are distrustful, so it would be good to show them that there isn't anything weird going on.
MM: yeah, but we don't have the resources
This occurs a few times until I the internal tracker we used is kinda like a log.
Me: Hey this tracker we use kinda works like a mod log, can we repurpose that to be a mod log? That way we're not starting from scratch and just adjusting a few things.
MM: ok, we can do that.
Some time passes due to frimble getting in an accident and being unable to work for a bit, then the transition happens and other things are made priority, coding wise.
Me: soooo, about the mod log?
MM: yep, we're finishing it up, here's an admin only look at it for now. we're not going to flesh it out, as resources are focused on developing the new site.
Me: hey members, here's a simple moderation log (SML)!
Members: Ok, cool, but why isn't this more full featured?!
Me: Focusing resources on new site.
Me thinking to myself: This could be more full featured and a lot of members will be disappointed and want more, which makes total sense, but this is at least at start and we can go from there.
For the record, I'm 100% behind doing a full featured moderation log. The one at lobster.rs has been mentioned a few times and I think that's a great goal to shoot for, with a few MeFi tweaks.
...but I do wonder why the log isn’t an archive...
Why only 50 comments and why only the last 7 days?
Unknown, my guess is that it was the simplest or easiest thing to do or queries the database the least, but I honestly don't know. Have posted that question on the Slack.
Me: hey, we should do the mod log that members have been asking for
Management (MM): we don't really have the resources to do that
Me: well, members are distrustful, so it would be good to show them that there isn't anything weird going on.
MM: yeah, but we don't have the resources
This occurs a few times until I the internal tracker we used is kinda like a log.
Me: Hey this tracker we use kinda works like a mod log, can we repurpose that to be a mod log? That way we're not starting from scratch and just adjusting a few things.
MM: ok, we can do that.
Some time passes due to frimble getting in an accident and being unable to work for a bit, then the transition happens and other things are made priority, coding wise.
Me: soooo, about the mod log?
MM: yep, we're finishing it up, here's an admin only look at it for now. we're not going to flesh it out, as resources are focused on developing the new site.
Me: hey members, here's a simple moderation log (SML)!
Members: Ok, cool, but why isn't this more full featured?!
Me: Focusing resources on new site.
Me thinking to myself: This could be more full featured and a lot of members will be disappointed and want more, which makes total sense, but this is at least at start and we can go from there.
For the record, I'm 100% behind doing a full featured moderation log. The one at lobster.rs has been mentioned a few times and I think that's a great goal to shoot for, with a few MeFi tweaks.
...but I do wonder why the log isn’t an archive...
Why only 50 comments and why only the last 7 days?
Unknown, my guess is that it was the simplest or easiest thing to do or queries the database the least, but I honestly don't know. Have posted that question on the Slack.
Mod note on 'A moderation log, general info page, and site update note'
The info page needs to clarify what the years mean by someone's name.
Done and have added the link to the functional spec to that page.
I'm taking stakeholder in this instance to apply specifically to just that document, i.e. people who can go in to edit and manage it and be responsible for coordinating with kirkaracha about what feature list is and what order said features are implemented.
Done and have added the link to the functional spec to that page.
I'm taking stakeholder in this instance to apply specifically to just that document, i.e. people who can go in to edit and manage it and be responsible for coordinating with kirkaracha about what feature list is and what order said features are implemented.
Mod note on 'Let's talk about the BIPOC board.'
This page says loup does management and Brandon does communications.
Yep and loup reports to the board, which is currently the Interim Board. All the mods and developers have access to their Slack channel and can bring things up to them.
Creatrixtiara, if there's something in particular you think the staff should do or being in terms of the BiPOC, I'd recommend asking for that thing to be done publicly, like here in this thread. If there's specific tasks you think the Board needs done and you think a mod can assist with, just shoot us an email or make a MeTa with the ask
General purpose goals or discussion might better formal meetings, but that's y'all's call. The bottom line is that staff can and is willing to help, it's just a matter of defining that sort of help the BIPOC board wants
Yep and loup reports to the board, which is currently the Interim Board. All the mods and developers have access to their Slack channel and can bring things up to them.
Creatrixtiara, if there's something in particular you think the staff should do or being in terms of the BiPOC, I'd recommend asking for that thing to be done publicly, like here in this thread. If there's specific tasks you think the Board needs done and you think a mod can assist with, just shoot us an email or make a MeTa with the ask
General purpose goals or discussion might better formal meetings, but that's y'all's call. The bottom line is that staff can and is willing to help, it's just a matter of defining that sort of help the BIPOC board wants
Mod note on 'Moderation Log'
A bare bones moderation log has been released, here's the thread announcing and discussing it.
Mod note on 'A moderation log, general info page, and site update note'
[So is it now a policy that mods should always leave a comment when they delete? People were asking for that for a while, it's great if that's true.
Yes, it is policy that a mod should always leave an official note when something is removed. If you see it not happening, please point that out by email at least!
Yes, some of us were a bit forgetful when we started doing that, but at this point it should be happening as the default, no exceptions. If it isn't, please report it!
(makes mental note to update FAQ entries that mention deleting by this evening)
Yes, it is policy that a mod should always leave an official note when something is removed. If you see it not happening, please point that out by email at least!
Yes, some of us were a bit forgetful when we started doing that, but at this point it should be happening as the default, no exceptions. If it isn't, please report it!
(makes mental note to update FAQ entries that mention deleting by this evening)
Mod note on 'Let's talk about the BIPOC board.'
There is a list of staff and committees...
That's the page I mentioned a few comments ago and since it's publicly visible now, just gonna leave it so. Was waiting for confirmation on who is currently on the BiPOC committee, which I got about 30 minutes ago.
That's the page I mentioned a few comments ago and since it's publicly visible now, just gonna leave it so. Was waiting for confirmation on who is currently on the BiPOC committee, which I got about 30 minutes ago.
Mod note on 'Let's talk about the BIPOC board.'
I'm thinking the idea of having one page with all the committees, the elections, the boards.
I am working today on a General Information page that does things like this, it'll be mentioned in the Site Update, which is running a little late (should have been posted this week but waiting on some information)
The site update should happen by Wednesday of next week at the very latest. If it doesn't, mods will make a post a MeTa explaining the delay.]
I am working today on a General Information page that does things like this, it'll be mentioned in the Site Update, which is running a little late (should have been posted this week but waiting on some information)
The site update should happen by Wednesday of next week at the very latest. If it doesn't, mods will make a post a MeTa explaining the delay.]
Mod note on 'Time to remove Facebook social sharing?'
If it's not easy to add new ones right now, so be it. Mods?
You're correct, it's not easy to add new ones right now and we're more or less just leaving that sidebar as is as we work on the new site. While it hasn't been decided on whether we'll have sharing links sidebar on the new site. If we do, it's safe to say that FB won't be on it.
You're correct, it's not easy to add new ones right now and we're more or less just leaving that sidebar as is as we work on the new site. While it hasn't been decided on whether we'll have sharing links sidebar on the new site. If we do, it's safe to say that FB won't be on it.